Old Goat

Joined

• started 43 topics
• posted 586 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Old Goat

• 
  13

  Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

  i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

  "the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Dear "Found",

  I'm not upset, and I'm sure your intentions were pure.

  There must be some Russellites on here who can document this from the other side. No?
• 
  13

  Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

  i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

  "the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  My topic has been hijacked by a photo! Do we have details of the so-called 'evil servant's' attemtps to "subvert" Watchtower congregations after Rutherford's death?

  We can say all sorts of interesting things about the 1917 split. I want details about what happened in 1942.
• 
  13

  Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

  i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

  "the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Schulz and de Vienne, the authors of Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet, on their private history blog have a long write up that is destined to be an appendix in their next book. I'm breaking rules by quoting it here, but then I've never been good at obeying all the rules:

  A pyramid shaped monument was installed in the Bible Student cemetery in Pittsburgh. The cemetery is occasionally described as Masonic. It’s not. There is a Masonic temple nearby built years later. There is no connection. The pyramid was intended as a general monument with the names of those buried in the Watch Tower plots engraved onto open books. Rather than being a Masonic symbol, the open book motif derives from the book of Revelation. Those who want to cast Russell as part of some great Masonic conspiracy claim the pyramid embodies the “all seeing eye.” It does not. The pyramid symbol refers to Russell’s belief, shared by many others who did not otherwise hold his views, that the Great Pyramid at Gizah was a divinely inspired testimony in stone to Bible truth. We trace the development of this idea in Chapter Three. The use of the pyramid as a monument was suggested not by the back of the US dollar which had an entirely different design in 1920, but by the grave marker for Charles Piazzi Smyth, a prominent pyramidologist and Astronomer Royal of Scotland.

  The monument was installed in 1919, some years after Russell’s death. One source suggests Russell designed it, a Bible Student convention report saying: “The Pyramid, as you will note, has an open book carved on each side, intended by Brother Russell for the names of Bethel workers as they ceased their work and were laid at rest, awaiting the great Resurrection of the first-fruits of the Lord.” [1] A Bible Student web page takes pains to blame the pyramid monument on Rutherford rather than Russell. Neither of these statements is correct. The monument was designed not as a memorial to Russell but “as a memorial to the society.” It was “designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society’s burial space.” According to Bohnet, work started in 1914. The pyramid’s purpose was not Masonic. [2]

  ---

  [1] Souvenir Notes from the Reunion Convention of Christian Bible Students: Pittsburgh, Pa., November 1-2-3, 1929.

  [2] Souvenir Notes from the Bible Student’s Convention: Pittsburgh, Pa., January 2-5, 1919, page 7.
• 
  13

  Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

  i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

  "the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  I'm fairly certain the pyramid monument isn't related to Rutherford's death. It was put up about 1919 as a memorial to Watch Tower workers.
• 
  13

  Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

  i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

  "the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  I became a Witness a few years after Rutherford died, so I know little about the events right after his death. I found this in the March 1942 Informant:
  
  "The effort of the demons is to scatter the Lord’s sheep and to wean and lure them away from the Lord’s Theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the Lord’s “strange work”. “He that gathered not with me scatterth,” and the Lord is using His organization in the gathering work. Instances are now reported that since the death of Brother Rutherford agents of the “evil servant” class, which regarded Brother Rutherford as a barrier and as an object of personal offense, are now calling at the homes of the Theocratic publishers and making inquiries as to the locations of meetings being conducted in the homes. The intent is plainly a demonic effort to infiltrate into the ranks of the newly interested and busily-occupied “sheep” and then try to cause doubts, misgivings, suspicions, division, controversies, and other schemes of the chief of demons to break up the unity and to distract their attention from the Lord’s table and from the work which it is the life-or-death obligation of God’s covenant people to perform. The faithful will safe-guard the Kingdom interests and will resist these efforts of the demons by refusing to give out any information to the crafty agents of the “evil servant” or other religionists."
  
  Can anyone add details to this?
• 
  34

  History of Witnessing in the UK.

  by Chariklo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when did things really take off for the wt in the uk?

  can anyone help with some research ideas?.

  the proclaimers book gives some ideas, but i'm wondering how quickly it grew.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  According to Schulz and deVienne (Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet), there was interest in the UK from the 1860s. They name and connect to articles by an Eliash H. Tucket, a Baptist turned follower of Barbour. A Christadelphian journal reviewed Barbour's Midnight Cry booklet and there were Herald of the Morning subscribers in the UK. On their web sites (one of which is invitation only) they reprint the review.

  A Canadian writer noticed Zion's Watch Tower in an article published in Rainbow. Earlier Rainbow had reviwed Three Worlds. The first concerted effort in the UK was by two Americans sent by Russell, John Corbin Sunderlin (a pioneer era photographer and former Methodist minister) and Joseph J. Bender. The contracted the printing of thousands of copies of Food for Thinking Christians and had them circulated by messenger boys. Small congregations grew up almost over night, but they remaind very small.

  A significant number of early converts within the United States were immigrants from the UK. They evangelized by mail, and Russell notes that one of them wrote letters to put interested readers in England and Scotland in touch with each other. That in brief, is the story as two reliable historians present it. What the Watchtower says is mostly wrong.
• 
  188

  Rick Fearon should apologise for accusing faders of being cowards

  by cedars in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hate doing this type of thread.

  none of us are perfect, least of all myself, and i would rather focus any criticism on the watch tower society for damaging people's lives.

  however, in the short period since i've been a member of this forum i've noticed one member in particular deteriorate in his behaviour into the type of individual who threatens to undermine the credibility of the entire website.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  I seldom post on threads such as this one, but Mr. Fearon’s conduct is so egregious that I will this time. The world is full of angry, marginalized people. His website and call-in shows are his attempt to regain something lost. He is abusive and stupid.

  There is no expectation of free speech on a private forum. I don’t care if he goes or stays, but his chronic stupidity paints us all with the same brush. Most of us aren’t as he is, but those who come here out of curiosity cannot help but wonder if we are all as abusive, unthinking and gullible. If this were my forum, my opinion would change. He’d be gone in a second. As a forum reader, I simply ignore him. He feeds of attention, even negative attention.

  Johnny the Bethelite? Please … Rick in the 24 Columbia Heights building on the fourth floor in the NW corner there is a door. Something is written on the door. Ask Johnny what it is. I’d love to know his answer. (I mean the door on the right, inside hall.) On the fifth floor, same building, there is a series of paintings. Have dear ol’ Johnny list them in order starting from elevator right. I’d love to know his answer.

  Mr. Fearon is a conspiracy-theory fanatic. His message is off target. He is the epitome of the wild-eyed, bag-over-head, sign carrying apostate. He refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions. He is an attention whore who misses what little prominence he had within the Watchtower organization. Why he receives the attention that he does is a mystery to me.

  Would you engage this man in real life? If not, then why do it here? My mental image of him is of a man overfed on starch, wearing an ill-fitting suit and a tinfoil hat, protest sign in one hand and a squished pastry in the other. He’s this forum’s version of the street evangelist who shouts obscenities and damns everyone that passes.

  I realize I’m transgressing my own advice to ignore him, but I can’t think of any way to suggest that he’s not worth your attention except to say so. It’s one of life’s conundrums.
• 
  36

  What do you think of AOG church?

  by shallbefree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello friends, i am a fading jw and i am thinking of attending sunday service at a local aog church here, just for fellowship.

  i have lots of friends but none of them are spiritual minded.

  not that i am complaining but it would be nice to meet some spiritual minded people.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  And you thought the Watchtower was bad .... AoG and C&MA are crazies.
• 
  1

  Help needed: Does someone know these WTS publications?

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does someone know these wts publications?

  might be early tracts by russell, something from the judge or whatever ... not "ordinary" books it seems:.

  then they will knowthe lord's day and youyou know not the hourthe gentile times have endedgog of magog: the arch deceivergifts in men.

  1. 
• 

  Old Goat

  I became a witness in the late 1940s. I have an extensive library. I have never heard of these. Some of the titles seem to be watchtower articles. have you checked the watchtower cd. they may have been watchtower articles.
• 
  40

  Kingdom melodies / B4 Copyright/JW`s stealing melodies/anyone remember this ?

  by smiddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can recall sometime ago in the 60`s 70`s or theirabouts,it when they first printed their own songbook must have been before the org.copyrighted their material,and the reason they did that is because some brothers were stealing the tunes ?

  maybe modifying them and passing them off as their own for commercial gain?

  ( i know some of you are going to say wtf ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  The first song book published by Zion's Watch Tower was Songs of the Bride, edited by W. I. Mann and published in 1879. The songs were adapted from standard religious songbooks. What you're thinking of is the 1950 song book. It contained "Kingdom Songs" written to "worldly" music, including Hark the Herald Angels Sing and some classical works. There are some similarities between some Witness hymns and "worldly" music that mighty make you wonder about influences.

  I don't know about any scandals over the music. It is funny that the 1925 song book has Christmas music in it.